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Speaker 1:
This is Unleashing Leadership, and I'm your host, travis Moss, with our Season 5 co-host, dave Nurchi, and this podcast is all about takeaways from books that we read that are inspiring to us. This season's book is the Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz, and what we do is we take our observations and we talk about how we've implemented some of these takeaways in real life, what we think about some of the takeaways if we haven't, maybe even sometimes in real time, what we're doing with some of the takeaways, and a little bit about myself and Dave, our passion, what we do on our day jobs. I'm the chief executive officer of Seed Planning Group and Dave is the chief operating officer of Seed Planning Group, so this is what we do all day. Every day, we try to figure out a better way to build and run our business, to inspire and motivate people, to bring people together, to build community, to move the ball forward. And every episode is a takeaway from a particular book.
Speaker 1:
This book, again, is the Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz, and today's takeaway a little shorter than what we've been working on in the last couple episodes is senior managers need to optimize for the company's success, not their careers. So we're going to get into that Before we do. As always, do us a favor, like or subscribe to us wherever you're listening or watching, just takes a minute, click the little button. That helps us, and we appreciate that. And today's episode is brought to you by the One Big Thing podcast, because you are not alone. Learn how to reframe your challenges and overcome the things that are holding you back. Find out more about that podcast at NQR Media on YouTube. So if you're not familiar with the YouTube channel, you can go to NQR Media there and you can also catch visuals of this show as well. Or just go wherever there's podcasts. You'll be able to find the one big thing. All right, dave, so we're going back to our takeaway. Senior managers need to optimize for the company's success, not their career. This seems a little counterintuitive.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, this one lends itself to the right kind of ambition, I think. Um, it's really if, if your senior people are worried about their careers, there's always going to be some sort of conflict over time with the other people that work there. Because if everyone is worried about their own career, there's going to be be some. Well, I need to do this, or I need to do better than that person to make sure my career comes first or advances, or I get the promotion. So you're kind of at odds with the people you're working with. Right, you're almost like fighting over the same promotion or recognition type of thing. If you have the company's success.
Speaker 2:
Now that's where you get the alignment right, because that's going to be what the long-term success is, because you're all working for the company. The success of the company is essentially your success, especially in the senior roles, right? So I think that's where you got to look at it. You got to align here and work towards the company goals and not putting your own interests first, because you're always going to be head-to-head with people then yeah.
Speaker 1:
So let me, let me, let me insult all the mbas out there. You know, this is the shit you don't learn in school, um, and the stuff you're probably getting wrong. Uh, most people get into business and they look at it as stepping stones. I got started a small company. I get a couple of years in, I get this title. Then I move on to the next bigger company. I could put a couple of years in, I get this title, then I move on to the next bigger company.
Speaker 1:
It's all about me and me moving on and me moving up, right, and I actually know a lot of people in those situations that are miserable. You know, it's all about the money or it's all about you know how many hours are working and stuff like that. It's it's it's less about the mission. It maybe started out about the mission, but it ends up more about what's my next pay raise? What's my next pay raise? What's my next pay raise? Um, listen, if money is just your thing, that's cool. The one thing that you find out about money as you make money. You can make money a lot of ways, right, and making more money doesn't necessarily make you more happy, right? So there's a lot of people out there on anxiety, you know, taking pills, taking drugs, doing all kinds of stuff, can't sleep at night, horrible health, all these issues and a lot of it's because they're just pushing, pushing, pushing for their next step up, their next step up, their next step up.
Speaker 1:
I had a conversation with a guy the other day. He's about 60. Um love talking to this man. Um, incredibly articulate, incredibly intelligent. We have really great conversations. He's about 60 years old, goes to his manager. His manager says so what do you want out of your career, your career path there? You know, like, are you just trying to do this position for two more years and you're going to step up to a bigger institution? He's like, dude, I'm 60 years old. He's like I live in this community. He goes my family's in this community, my parents are in this community.
Speaker 1:
I care about how this community does and his particular industry. I care about the impact of my industry on this community. I'm not looking to move up and move out. I'm looking to do a really really good job because this community needs this. Really really good job done. I do well enough financially. Really really good job done. I do well enough financially. I'm not saying that I got to buy a bigger house or fancier cars or something to find personal value. What I'm going to find personal value is can I change this industry for the community and help the community?
Speaker 1:
That's a very different mindset, then, and so the guy didn't know what to do and we were just laughing because he's talking. He's like you know, he's got an MBA and everything I said. Well, that's the problem. You're talking to somebody with an MBA who can only think about the way things are supposed to be, the way they taught you in business school. You know, elon Musk is famous for saying this. And again, elon Musk is an enigma all in himself, but he won't hire MBAs. You know, enigma all in himself, but he won't hire MBAs. What's his name? Warren Buffett. Listen to him talk and what his feelings are about MBAs. And again, it's not saying all well, not.
Speaker 1:
Again, I don't think I said this in the first place. I'm not saying all MBAs are bad. What I'm saying is is that what we're learning in school and bringing into the workforce is a very selfish, narrow orientation about. If I can just make this number look big enough, I can get that next promotion and I'm out. There's a, there's an uh, an organization in the town that we're from, that you know, has gone through a bunch of leadership changes. One of the leaders a couple of years back gutted the organization, made the numbers look really good, got a promotion left town. The organization has never recovered from the gutting.
Speaker 2:
Nope.
Speaker 1:
So somebody got a promotion, got out of town, somebody else stuck with the problem.
Speaker 2:
And that spreads itself in that community.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So what kind of legacy are you leaving behind? You know, after you make a bunch of money, after you, you know, buy the things you want and stuff, do you ever look in the rear view mirror? Cause some of that stuff will come back to haunt you? Some of that stuff will make a difference and we'll. You know, some people don't care anymore. But for those that care you know the type of people that we work with, dave, those that actually care get off the academic. You just make the numbers look good for the next couple quarters and get a promotion and move up and move out.
Speaker 2:
Right, yeah, it's interesting because that is when you get all the degrees and all the credentials and all that stuff. It is all about me Look, look at all the letters after my name or this and that means I should know more, I can do more. But getting in there and being a teammate and like making the choices that are going to be better for an organization as a whole and the bigger purpose you can't teach that that's got to be something that you just feel, and yet you want to have that impact. You can't teach that that's got to be something that you just feel, and yet you want to have that impact. You can't learn that somewhere, like, oh okay, I'm supposed to do this and that's going to help my community, that's great. You can't really learn that it's got to be a feeling and I think about my time as a consultant and that's the whole model there You're talking about, like the moving up.
Speaker 2:
People come in from their MBA program or whatever awesome school they went to and how smart they are and they make their way up by taking credit for everything that they do and it's all about look at what I did, look at the projects I was on. They get to a certain level and I think it's pretty known. It's like okay, I get to manager level or director level and now I get all these job offers for more money and this and that, because I made this certain level, which means I must know this. And now I just go to a different industry and a different job and it's just jumping around and they have this career of just like the self-advancement which, again, that works for some people and the money and all that. But you're kind of left with like this emptiness of okay, what's next now? Or what impact have I actually had besides just advancing myself?
Speaker 1:
Right, no, and, and you know when he's talking about optimizing for the company's success, not their careers as a leader sometimes, or as a as a senior manager, right? You can't be worried about getting all the credit right. You can't be worried about what's your next move. You can't be worried about if I do a really good job I might make myself obsolete and the company won't need me anymore. What you need to do is have pride in that I did such a good fucking job that that company went to the moon. Man, and you know what I did such a good job, I made myself obsolete. You know what's going to happen then. You become uber valuable to the next company that needs that. If you are so good at something and you can get a company to the next level, you will become so valuable for somebody looking for the same thing. So don't look at it as a negative. Look at it as a trophy and cherish. Look at it as a trophy, you know, and cherish it. You know like there's no reason, especially in today's day and age, with mobility and being able to work abroad and all that kind of stuff, there's no reason why you got to be like geez, if I don't work for this company. I'm nothing. You can go just my eyes.
Speaker 1:
I never realized how big the world was until LinkedIn came around. I started looking at LinkedIn, everybody's job titles and companies I worked for. All of a sudden, you realize there's endless opportunity, right? Don't be afraid that you do such a good job that somebody else gets promoted over you because you created that little monster and they did just that phenomenal, or that you, you know, built yourself right out of a job. Maybe you can't keep up with the growth of the company because you're driving so much growth. You know what. You take that as a badge of honor and you go find out the next company that you can bring that to, and now you charge double for it. I am so good. I can prove to you that I will do this for you. I want X. That's how you. That's how you everybody's worried about their brand. That's how you. That's how you everybody's worried about their brand. That's how you build your brand.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and the key there is what you're talking about is you. You, you did that for the company, right? You set the company and help them and that's the badge of honor. Now I played this like politics game and work right up the system and look at, look at me and my title. Now I'm going to move on. So what? You?
Speaker 2:
do is you build up the company and now, even if or when you leave, the company is already set up for success. So you help that company and the community it's in and you're going to go do that for somebody else instead. Of.
Speaker 1:
Oh, and you're going to get glowing recommendations, right? I mean, like anybody that they talk to, the company is going to be like you know, dave was here and he was phenomenal, he was inspiring, he was awesome. Why, dave leave? They built, he did such a good job, he it was time for him to go find a new opportunity.
Speaker 1:
Think about yourself as a craftsman. You're you're a contractor, right, but you're you're a fine woodworker. You go in and you do this incredibly exquisite cabinets, right. You don't do half the job just so. You have something to do on Monday. You finish that job and you make it so you can. The end result is you do something incredible for that homeowner, right, and that homeowner will brag for you and that's your portfolio, that's your body of work. You don't sit there and hang on to that. No, now you use that and you go get the next job and now you can charge a premium because somebody can see how great you can do, right, so you get to vote. You get the reward that you're looking for, you know, by focusing on your craftsmanship, by focusing on how good you actually are and the impression that you leave, right, the impact that you leave If you just look at your career and say it's all about my career.
Speaker 1:
I don't know. To me that's where people I've I've known many of them. They're miserable. You know, by the time they hit their fifties or sixties, they cannot wait for the day they walk out the door. They don't even know what they're going to do. Yeah, you know, and then half of them get cancer or have heart attacks. You know and I'm not saying there's a correlation there, but it just seems to be pretty common they're miserable at their job. They hate it, they hate it, they hate it. They were only doing it because of the money. Then they walk out the door and boom, you know, something grabs them.
