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Speaker 1:
This is Unleashing Leadership, and I'm your host, travis Moss, and we've got our Season 5 co-host, dave Nertje, with us. And we're in the book the Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz. And our point today, dave, I think it's one that we've probably covered, at least around the edges, but I think we have some new points that we just kind of want to harp on a little bit. Politics advancing position by reasons other than merit or contribution. We've talked about Peter's principle. We've talked about people, you know, getting in positions that are in over their head.
Speaker 1:
But before we get into it, it's brought to us by Ditch the Suits podcast. Get more out of your money and life. Check them out at ditchthesuitscom. If you like what you hear, please subscribe. Give us a review, leave some comments, have some fun with it, share it with some other people, do what you can. Thank you very much in advance, dave. Let's go back. Politics Adv you and we kind of merge this with another point that, again, is kind of echoing through. All those raises need to be tied to performance, or squeaky wheels will come from everywhere. Ben, when he talks about politics, he's not talking about who you vote for. He's talking about the internal politics. I think just a little bit ago we did one where we were like hey, it's coming to mom or going to dad, basically trying to get different answers within the organization.
Speaker 1:
So he's talking about the politics of being favorites, or something like that.
Speaker 2:
Yep, yeah, and I think when we tie this and the first thing that comes to mind for me is is the, the 10 year conversation, I think a lot, of, a lot of companies, a lot of situations people probably have been in is where you know it's just well, this person deserves this because they've been here long or you know. Uh, I mean, that's that's probably the majority of the cases. Or maybe they did something in the past and it kind of got them respect or something at the time that now they're just kind of riding that and it's well, we got to keep advancing this person because of that. And what does that send to your organization and the people who might come in and be working harder or hungrier and are doing more and having more impact? And then what happens the one time you can't make everybody happy regardless. But doing it this way, there's nothing, there's no conversation or purpose behind what you did other than some imaginary factor.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think the way that where I would go with this to just spice it up a little bit, is the mob is never satisfied and the mob will kill the golden goose. You know, um, once you allow, uh, that type of mentality where, uh, it's not about what I'm doing, what I'm supposed to be doing, you know how I'm developing, and it's more about, um, I think I have a position of power so I can kind of demand you know I've, I've got you. You know I'm going to kind of hold you hostage because I know you need me, so I want more Um. In what situation does that not come back? You know, I mean once you establish the fact, and it's not to mean that somebody can't come to you and say, hey, you know, I, I did an analysis and I'm under market rate by 20. Okay, fine, let's talk about that, because maybe we screwed up. But it does mean that somebody comes to you and just says I'm gonna leave you, don't give me another 30 grand for the job that should be paying. Let's say 60. But it does mean that somebody comes to you and just says I'm going to leave you, don't give me another 30 grand for the job that should be paying. Let's say 60. At second you say, okay, fine, I can't lose you, we'll give you 90 for a job that should be paying 60. What are they going to come back and say, I want 110. The other thing that happens is the other person who sees that they do that is going to come in and say well, I want 92. Why are they getting 90 for doing the job that is worth 60 that you pay me 60 for. And then everybody who makes, who is making more than 60, but less than 90, is going to come to you and say, well, they all got those raises, I want those raises. And anybody else in the organization who didn't get a raise that was 50 percent and heard somebody else got a 50% raise, is going to go. Why didn't I get a 50% raise? And before you know it, everybody's bankrupt, you know or not everybody, but the company's bankrupt, you know, and people.
Speaker 1:
It's hard for people to understand this sometimes and they say, well, companies aren't loyal and stuff. Well, you want a four day work week, you want to work from home, you want to work 32 hours a day, you want better health insurance, you want better benefits, you want this, you want that you want the other thing, and it's like more vacation, more perks in the cafeteria, whatever you want. That money has to come from someplace. And you could say, look man, it's it's. Maybe it's a multi-billion dollar corporation, or maybe my.
Speaker 1:
The owner of the company is rich, or you think that they're rich. They had the, the people who you are looking at saying, well, they're just living off my back. They are the ones who took the risk to allow you to have a place to go to work in the first place. So if, if it's a $60,000 job and they're paying you 90, they're picking up more risk, right, because they've got to get more return someplace else, you're putting the cost out of whack.
Speaker 1:
And so the best thing that the business can do is say because what's happening right now, when you see like worker shortages and stuff, you see kind of like these bidding wars where everything's going up and up and up, instead of just saying fine, go, instead of just saying fine, go.
Speaker 1:
If you're going to go, if you're going to make, if you're going to demand something like that and you don't deserve it based on merit, performance, job position and the dynamics of the job position, then go ahead and go someplace else, because once that creeps into your and so this is opposite advice that you might give to an employee, right, an employee you're going to say you go in there and you demand that you get to what you're worth and you always ask for more. And then the advice to businesses is make sure that it's grounded, make sure that it's like you can have more, but this is why you can have more. So next time, when they come and ask for more again, you say look, I gave you more. Because of that, you come in and ask for more without merit or some kind of basis for it other than the fact that you just think you deserve more. Then that job that you're saying that would pay you more, go take it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and that's the important part there, with either side right, we're not necessarily saying, as an employee, you don't go in and say hey, so I think I'm worth, or yeah more power to you.
Speaker 2:
But have the reasons why. Both sides right. Have the reasons. As the employee, this is why I think this here's what I've done, here's what we're doing all those reasons. And as the employer, if you are going to give the big raise or promotion, or maybe it's one of your youngest or least tenured employees, but they've made an impact and they continue to and they are committed to the company and you do give them a raise or promotion, make sure it's known why, right, appropriately, but have that ready. So when you do get approached by other employees or whatever the case is, there's a very laid out, detailed reason why you got that. And then that sets a good example for everybody. Hey, you could do that too. You just have to have everything prepared and ready and not just be giving out raises or promotions on a whim.
Speaker 1:
Right Just because of there. I've been here for two years. Why didn't I get that with that person's getting coming in Right? You know that brings up.
Speaker 1:
We talk about the virtues hungry, humble and smart. So you want a hungry team, right. And even if you're on a team, you want to be working with hungry people. You want people who want to do really good and want you to do really good because it helps them do really good. And they want the company to be successful because it makes everybody successful. And one of the ways you get that is by not having the politics, not having a tenure.
Speaker 1:
Any person in here based on performance can be rewarded On performance. You have to define what performance is right, otherwise you have politics. You have to say this is what we define as good performance, right. But anybody in here can get promoted, regardless of how long they've been here, if they're the right person for the job and if they're deserving thereof.
Speaker 1:
And that brings in the humble part. That means that everybody else in the organization who gets passed up because that other person outworked them and has shown that they're worth more, they got to be humble enough to say shit, I, if I want that, I got to do more. Yep, right, and you know what that guy earned it. I respect him not. He got that of me. I'm going to try to tear him down, right. So those two talents of or not talents, but those two virtues of being hungry and being humble, are really, really important there. And the whole politics part is about being smart. You know what I mean, and and and and. Being aware of this is how I can get ahead in this organization. And you got to believe, if you make it about politics, the smart people are going to figure out they can politic their way in and they'll just, they'll just destroy your business. You'll end up with the Peter's principle you have people in positions that should not be, in positions that absolutely run your business into the ground and then blame it on you.
Speaker 2:
Right, and that's a. That's a really hard thing to unwind, right, if you get to that point, and that's a great point. I love that you brought in the hungry, humble, smart point, because you can have a lot of stuff in place or you can have, you know, like we said, like the right reasons, everything laid out of why this person got the promotion or why they didn't. Whatever the case is, if you don't have the right kind of people that possess these, these virtues Right and are in it for the right reason, and they're team players.
Speaker 2:
They truly want to see their colleagues be successful as well as themselves. You're going to have politics one way or another, so I think, if you really boil it down, you need to have the right people in your company to be able to avoid some of this type of stuff.
Speaker 1:
And those aren't credentials you're talking about. You're not talking about people with certain degrees or pedigrees or something like that You're talking about. You know the makeup of the person. You have to have the you know, you have to be hiring on character and be mentoring strong values and virtues within the organization, as opposed to you making it all about the numbers or making it all about you know the metrics. You know how many have x credentials. I I've seen organizations that are full of people with great credentials and they're dysfunctional organizations yeah um and the, the culture is toxic.
Speaker 1:
so it's like you get the right people, you're going to get the results that you need. Short of yes, there's probably some, especially engineering and stuff like that, where you have to have certain credentials right in order to even do a job, but most businesses are not like that.
