We dissect the pivotal role of leaders in seeing beyond the immediate horizon, guiding their teams through uncharted waters with both steadfast resolve and empathetic finesse. Tune in as we discuss the delicate dance between holding firm to necessary changes and acknowledging the emotional terrain of those wedded to the ways of the past.
Navigating the relentless advancement of technology, particularly artificial intelligence, requires a deft hand, and this session explores just that. Leadership means recognizing when to let go of the familiar and embracing the potential of what lies ahead. Join us as we discuss the importance of discernment and adaptability in steering a course toward progress, while also knowing when to involve experts to lead the charge. This episode isn't just about challenging the status quo; it's an insightful exploration of how to lead with clarity and conviction in the face of inevitable transformation.
We dissect the pivotal role of leaders in seeing beyond the immediate horizon, guiding their teams through uncharted waters with both steadfast resolve and empathetic finesse. Tune in as we discuss the delicate dance between holding firm to necessary changes and acknowledging the emotional terrain of those wedded to the ways of the past.
Navigating the relentless advancement of technology, particularly artificial intelligence, requires a deft hand, and this session explores just that. Leadership means recognizing when to let go of the familiar and embracing the potential of what lies ahead. Join us as we discuss the importance of discernment and adaptability in steering a course toward progress, while also knowing when to involve experts to lead the charge. This episode isn't just about challenging the status quo; it's an insightful exploration of how to lead with clarity and conviction in the face of inevitable transformation.
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Speaker 1:
This is Unleashing Leadership and I'm your host, travis Moss, and we are with our Season 5 special guest, dave Nurchi, as we get after some lessons learned from the book the Hard Thing by Hard Things by Ben Horowitz, and today's episode is going to be brought to you by Seed Planning Group. That's our day job, dave and I. I'm completely not affiliated to this show at all, it just happens to be how we know each other. Seed Planning Group, fee-only fiduciaries, a wealth management firm that helps people overcome the challenges that are keeping them from personal fulfillment. We tied in our nice little just cause there from our work with the Infinite Game with Simon Sinek that was season four, just before this one as we're kind of transitioning the company into the next iteration of the next phase of its growth, positioning the company into the next iteration of the next phase of its growth. So you can get more on seed planning group by going to wwwseedpgcom. So that's S-E-E-D-P-Gcom.
Speaker 1:
All right, dave, we are into really a good follow up. We actually added this one extra, this topic in there, extra to follow up from trust. More trust needs less communication, which was our last episode and now we're going to go into. People without all information will always argue to preserve the status quo, and this is one of my favorite parts of the book and it's also I would suggest it's part of that euphoria, the and terror thing this this is like, or the wartime ceo, which we'll talk about later in this book. It, it's the point in the book where you kind of cringe and go oh yeah, he said that you know, and, and you could probably easily imagine yourself saying it in a situation like that, and I'm thinking could have done that a little bit softer, right, and it's, it's the fuck you moment where somebody walks in your office and tells you how to solve the problem that they don't understand and you go, fuck, you, get out of my office yeah and and then you go, shouldn't have done that right?
Speaker 1:
and you're like should have done it because they need to know they don't have the information. Shouldn't have done it because, well, it's a little harsh, right, but that's what he's talking about. He's talking about that there's, in fact, a lot of people in your organization or even outside of your organization. It could be board members, it could be people in your organization, it could be customers, it could be community members, it could be your family members. They're going to come. And when you're scaling your business right, when your life is becoming more complicated, when your business is becoming more complicated, when your division or department is becoming more complicated, when your job is becoming more complicated, it's not just about being, you know, the big boss. It's about you're in a situation where there's a lot of things to take into consideration, not just where you are today, but where you're hoping to be tomorrow, and understanding all the points where all the information is coming in. As we talked about with team of teams, so as organizations scale, they're going to have more teams. So let's say that you have four divisions and those are actually four teams and they even have sub teams within them. But there's a lot of people and they're doing a lot of stuff, working on a lot of projects, and all that stuff is flowing up to the top. And the one guy who knows everything that's going on well, not everything that's going on, but they understand conceptually where all the pieces are going, they can see the whole puzzle, whereas everybody else can only see their section. You're looking at that information going okay, I need to take that into account, that into account, that into account. And then somebody comes in your door that doesn't have any of that information. They only have one division or two divisions worth of information and they start telling you what you need to do to fix the problem. And most of the time, what they're trying to do is fix the problem back to the same current kind of situation, the same standard. So think about this, and this is why the CEO gets so pissed about this stuff. Or, if you're a parent, you get so pissed about this stuff when your kids come in and bug you about it. So something's broken, it doesn't work anymore, it is fundamentally flawed. You know that the past is the past, the future is coming and what you were doing is wrong. It doesn't work anymore. It's not going to work. You know that the past is the past, the future is coming and what you were doing is wrong. It doesn't work anymore. It's not going to work. You're going to die on that hill, right? You're going to fall on your own sword.
Speaker 1:
So you've got to identify the fact that there's a problem. You let your people know there's a problem and then you have all the experts come and tell you how to address your problem. Meanwhile, you're not trying to fix it. You're not trying to say, hey, this widget, it don't work, no more. We're going to try to get this one working and we're going to try to patch the holes. What you're saying is I need a whole new widget.
Speaker 1:
I'm going to go out there, I'm going to build this entire new system because, where we're going, maybe you can put enough band-aids and duct tape on this to get it through the next year or two, but at the end of that time period it's going to be completely obliterated.
Speaker 1:
It's going to go from bad to worse and possibly even critical. So I'm going to get ahead of that by taking the runway that I have right now and looking at where I think we're going to be going in the future, understanding what everybody else is building on, what our strengths and weaknesses are, and I'm going to try to reposition us and that's what he's getting at. He's getting at. There are times where, even though you think you're trying to help, you have no idea what the real problem is. Even if I were to articulate to you here's, conceptually, the problem, all the details and the other information behind the scenes, with all the other teams working on it, if you're not in the middle of that information, you're just not going to understand, and so the things that you might be fighting for, again that's, you're picking the wrong hill to fight what amount of information is appropriate to, to kind of get everybody aligned right, like like enough.
Speaker 2:
Where here comes the balance again right, like we talked about in some of the previous episodes of the, the trust and the communication, like, where, you know, blindly following or following, you know, with intention and understanding. So that's the big challenge is what is appropriate, uh, to share or or have, like like each division understand, so they can work towards that bigger. You know that that monumental change that may be happening, that's going to be a game changer for the way we do things at our company, um, and and and creating that balance of, okay, I feel good about that and I can work towards it, but also not having to debrief every single employee on what's happening. Right, because there's no time for that.
Speaker 1:
Well, and there's an expertise issue, right, like there are things that that further up you go, probably the more broader your skillsets are, um, and there could be technical things that further up you go, probably the more broader your skill sets are, and there could be technical things that are just well beyond you or things beyond your pay grade that are critical out of how certain things run, but it wouldn't make a difference if you knew them or not. You have no contextual knowledge, but here's what good leadership does. Good leadership goes to the people when they have a problem and says, dave, can you help me on this? And this is what I need to help you on. They define the scope of the work. And so back to our last episode about trust. If you trust in your leadership, then you trust that they will actually come to you and say, hey, I need you on this team, I need you to help me solve this problem, and good leadership will do that. And that's part of what Ben says about being transparent and saying, hey, there's a problem, and being able to admit when you're scared and you got to work on something is here's a problem. And this is what we need to do and part of what we need to do is who needs to do it right. Is this an all hands on deck or is this a management team issue? Or do we already have a 90% done by the time you find out about it? But we just got to get over the finish line, so I don't need you doing anything. So that's what good leadership does.
Speaker 1:
If you're following and you're trying to be a good follower and you have an issue that you think, okay, they probably need to know about this issue and you're not sure if they know it, the best way to do that is to ask do you know about this issue? And if leadership wants to know more, leadership will say tell me more. And if they don't want to know more, they will say we're good, thank you. And the reason why is because if you're on a thing that's critical, let's say, in Ben's book he talks about, you know literally be on the on the razor's edge, like in two weeks or in a month. So you want to go and you want to sit down with me and you want me to explain the entire business with you and you want to tell me about an idea that doesn't even have all the information incorporated into it instead of trying to figure out the solution to save us over the next two to four weeks. So you have to have trust in your leadership and you have to understand that they're in the leadership position they are because they have something that you don't.
Speaker 1:
Now, whether or not you think that's unfair, whether or not you think that your leader is any good I mean, if you're in an organization you think the leader is stupid, leave Right, you have no business being there. If you don't believe in the leadership. And, frankly, if it's an organization with bad leadership and people leave, that's the solution to fixing the bad leadership. Right, staying doesn't fix the bad leadership or perpetuates it. So you vote with your feet. You're like bad leadership, I'm leaving. See you later. Good leadership, I'm staying to fix the problem.
Speaker 1:
But if you trust, then you can go and say hey, you need help on this. I'm pretty good at that and I've looked at some of the data and I had some points and if and if it's something that they feel can help them, they will say yes. Or if it's something they don't feel can help them, they will say no. Or if they're willing to listen, but it needs to be. Look, you need to give me the five-minute version, not the three-day version, and I think that that's because he talks about these two guys coming in and giving them a 500-page PowerPoint presentation about this solution.
Speaker 1:
They had nothing to do with anything that was happening, and it was already with anything that was happening and it was already decided that that was the wrong way to go. But they don't understand. They don't see where the map is going, they only see where they are right now and they only see where they were yesterday. And so they're. They're trying, in good faith, to help. But that's where the trust comes in. You have to trust that we're not idiots at the top Right, the top Right, even if we make mistakes. We may sometimes make a mistake and you'll say I knew that. Okay, fine, but guess what? You're not in the position. It's not on your head, it's on their head and we're just asking. If the leader wants your help, they'll ask, and if you want to help, the leader.
Speaker 2:
You can ask, but then respect the decision from both parties, yep and, as a leader, create the environment that people understand that just maintaining status quo is going to eventually bite you in the ass.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah. Like, status quo is this is how it was yesterday, this is how it should be today, this is how it's going to be tomorrow. And we like to think about that as an employee in the employee position you'd like to think, because it gives you consistent expectations of what tomorrow is going to bring. Like if I keep doing the same thing over and over again, I move up, I make more money, or nobody bothers me, or whatever. But when you're in a business that's growing and even not with the, the advancements in artificial intelligence and all these other things that are changing, the status quo is change.
Speaker 1:
And if you're trying to protect the process from yesterday without addressing the process, that needs to be adjusted to really get into what the problem is, if you're in charge of a process and in that process there's a whole bunch of problems. If you were that aware, you would have fixed the process Right, but the issue is that you weren't aware. So when you come in, so when somebody comes and says, hey, we need a new process because of where business is going, and you come in and say, well, there's nothing wrong with, let's just fix it. Well, the argument is there. You don't actually know what needs to be done. So you need to realize that and you need to let people help. You know what I mean. You need to let the people who can engineer this better engineer it.
Speaker 1:
So, so anyway, I think we killed this one. Anything, any last words on this one. I think we killed it. All right, it's dead. See you later. Make sure you got all. The people are almost never going to have all the information. Make sure you don't pick the wrong hill to die on Right, just trying to protect the status quo. Basically is the quote and the message from this